Session Start: Wed Jul 16 00:00:00 2014 Session Ident: #glitchpc [00:00] * Now talking in #glitchpc
[00:00] * Topic is 'Welcome to #glitchpc chat. Profanity, trolls, and impersonation are not welcome here. Street1 has become a Silent Keyboard. http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/savannah/obituary.aspx?page=lifestory&pid=139870551'
[00:00] * Set by jacky on Tue Mar 02 13:03:23
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[03:42]<@BC_Programming> !fc nanaimo BC
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[07:19]<@BC_Programming> !fc Nanaimo BC
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[11:45]<Tux2> I hate maven, I HATE maven, I HATE MAVEN!!!!
[11:49]<Tux2> I submitted a file to bukkit dev which I had included some apache libraries which I had minified by hand. The file was rejected for the following reason: "Maven's minimization should be used to shade Apache Commons and other libs." Spent another 30 minutes learning how to include dependencies and shading, etc. then the shading was including everything... went into the bukkit support channels and found you had to include a thing in the
[11:49]<Tux2> maven they didn't tell you about on apache's website. Included that and it minimized nicely, except for the 150KB of bloat text files which apparently maven CAN'T remove! (Either that or everyone got annoyed at me for not being able to use maven and hating it even more when it wouldn't do what I needed it to do...)
[11:50]<Tux2> In the end I rage quitted the bukkitdev channel, removed the bloat by hand and posted the file... Maven is just not worth the hassle
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[19:01]<@BC_Programming> Tux2: That was a really dumb reason to reject a file
[19:36]<Tux2> BC_Programming: exactly! I was basically raging inside that even though I had taken the time to remove quite a bit of bloat they expected me to use maven.
[19:37]<@BC_Programming> Was the project even using Maven before that?
[19:37]<Tux2> Nope!
[19:37]<@BC_Programming> wtf
[19:37]<@BC_Programming> we see you shaded files, you should use maven just for that even though it works as is
[19:38]<@BC_Programming> then it turns out that you cant even do it properly with maven to begin with
[19:38]<Tux2> lol, exactly! Do you want 20KB of bloat or 150KB of bloat?
[19:39]<Tux2> http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/tweetannouncer/ <--- the project
[19:39]<@BC_Programming> The worst part is that it was already essentially a solve problem
[19:39]<@BC_Programming> solved*
[19:39]<@BC_Programming> they just for some reason wanted maven to be involved as a solution instead
[19:40]<Tux2> lol, exactly. They basically wanted NO BLOAT! Well, duoh! I go through all the classes and remove all the bloat before uploading anyways!
[19:40]<Tux2> I missed 8 class files total
[19:40]<@BC_Programming> which classes were you shading? Just apache commons stuff?
[19:40]<@BC_Programming> or rather which libs
[19:40]<Tux2> Yeah, just apache commons codec
[19:41]<Tux2> as well as signpost core
[19:41]<Tux2> I had already done a fair bit of minification and removal of unneeded class files before uploading the first time
[19:42]<@BC_Programming> I dont like that maven wasnt even a suggestion, but basically prescribed as mandatory
[19:42]<@BC_Programming> You might have just gotten an approver that was a maven die-hard
[19:43]<Tux2> lol, almost all the approvers are maven die-hards
[19:44]<Tux2> BC_Programming: yeah, I know what you mean, it wasn't a suggestion
[19:44]<Tux2> In order to tick them off I removed all traces that I used maven from the resulting jar file and finished up what maven didn't do
[19:45]<Tux2> before submitting again
[19:45]<@BC_Programming> hah
[19:45]<Tux2> If they reject it again with the same reason I'm calling foul!
[19:45]<Tux2> As in: I'm using maven and leaving the 150KB of bloat in there
[19:47]<@BC_Programming> maven is one of those things that does one thing, but makes it more complex than just doing it yourself
[19:48]<Tux2> Exactly!
[19:49]<@BC_Programming> Dont forget to edit the xml file and add arbitrary underdocumented nodes and attributes
[19:49]<Tux2> lol, exactly
[19:53]<Tux2> Here's the idiotic conversation I had with them in the #bukkitdev channel: http://paste.yu8.me/?490a98b4ea78e1ae#UXeol+Wa+bsbE+HZd2JsugMsg6dQqod08Www0ioUU2o=
[19:54]<Tux2> pasted from my xchat scrollback log, so sorry in advance for the formatting
[19:55]<@BC_Programming> haha I predicted it I guess first reply is about adding an arbitrary underdocumented node
[19:55]<@BC_Programming> I remember mbaxter from somewhere
[19:56]<Tux2> lol, mbaxter = bukkit dev
[19:56]<@BC_Programming> that is probably why
[19:56]<@BC_Programming> When you think about it Mojang hired all the good ones, lol
[19:57]<Tux2> I should have joined the channel to get proper time stamps on the paste, but I waited around for a good 10 minutes before I ended up rage quitting about a 3 minutes after I said ah, okay
[19:58]<Tux2> I love how they were knitpicking my use of pastebin as well
[19:59]<@BC_Programming> minimizeText? :P
[20:00]<Tux2> lol, right? So, the only guy that tried to help was turt2live, and even his advice was half wrong
[20:00]<@BC_Programming> then the advice after is basically minimizeJar only does half of what you need then nothing about what you actually need to do
[20:01]<@BC_Programming> possibly an admission of a shortcoming, one of many, of Maven
[20:01]<Tux2> lol, exactly
[20:01]<@BC_Programming> I can only imagine that ending up as But who would want text files in their jars? They must be doing something wrong
[20:02]<@BC_Programming> I seem to remember somebody telling me if I ever wanted to get into the industry I would need to learn Maven
[20:03]<Tux2> I went in there frustrated and upset, yet I kept my cool and asked for information in a civilized manner. I stated facts, asked for help, and basically got ignored when they realized that Maven couldn't do what I wanted it to do.
[20:03]<@BC_Programming> I cant even tell you are very frustrated/upset in the log
[20:04]<@BC_Programming> I would have probably been banned in a similar situation for my colourful descriptions
[20:06]<Tux2> Ha ha! When I get extremely upset or angry I'm usually extremely nice to the person as usually being extra nice is your key to getting what you want.
[20:08]<Tux2> I guess it's a survival instinct in me. :P
[20:08]<@BC_Programming> Im already banned from the minecraft subreddit, have been for like 2 years lol
[20:09]<Tux2> lol
[20:10]<@BC_Programming> Though Im not sure anybody has the time to correct some of the nonsense spoken there. The reason you have bad FPS is because Minecraft is written in Java type garbage
[20:10]<Tux2> ha ha!
[20:11]<@BC_Programming> or the whole if they had used C++ there wouldnt be any problems... poor naive people
[20:12]<Tux2> I'm going to be writing a new game, and it's going to be written in java... I wonder if people will go: "wow! This game runs really well. Wait, it's written in Java?!?!"
[20:13]<@BC_Programming> Nobody seems to blame C++ when a C++ game runs poorly and yet any hiccup with Java or C# and they are the issue
[20:13]<Veltas> I'm convinced had Notch started working on Minecraft with C++ it would not exist today.
[20:14]<Tux2> lol, I'd still be fixing computers
[20:14]<Veltas> Why, what do you do now instead?
[20:14]<@BC_Programming> Minecraft hosting
[20:14]<Veltas> Cool
[20:15]<@BC_Programming> so he kinda just replaced fixing computers with fixing minecraft servers :P
[20:15]<Tux2> lol, as well as write plugins for minecraft
[20:15]<Veltas> Nice
[20:15]<Tux2> I'm actually designing a new website/plugin for minecraft: http://mcplayers.tux2mc.com
[20:18]<@BC_Programming> speaking of I did sorta vanish with regards to GriefPrevention some time ago, Left you with a few pretty bit things like the UUID switch not being finished, sorry about that. I think I got most of the big ones from the switch to per-world configs, excepting of course the complaints about the very existence of per-world configs
[20:20]<Tux2> lol, no problem BC_Programming, I completely understand
[20:20]<Tux2> I'm working on the UUID switch
[20:20]<Tux2> Just taking time
[20:21]<@BC_Programming> did I switch claims to use UUIDs? I cant remember
[20:21]<Tux2> claims use a UUID for identification, yes
[20:21]<Tux2> however users? No
[20:21]<Tux2> That is taking quite some time
[20:21]<@BC_Programming> yeah I did the claims first because it was less of a pain :P
[20:22]<@BC_Programming> especially to try to stay compatible with older versions, Im not even sure how possible that is
[20:22]<Tux2> Compatibility = nightmare
[20:22]<Veltas> Compatibility is the running joke of software engineering
[20:23]<@BC_Programming> not to mention API compatibility oh gawd
[20:24]<Tux2> lol, EMP had a problem with that when bukkit decided that a space in a plugin name was now taboo
[20:24]<Tux2> We changed the plugin name and all the plugins that used EMP broke
[20:24]<Tux2> So people were asking US to fix it instead of the software developer
[20:25]<@BC_Programming> Did Bukkit provide any reasoning about why they made spaces not allowed?
[20:25]<Tux2> Nope, they just silently broke it in the beta builds leading up to a release
[20:26]<Tux2> We were having people reporting problems because EMP was now storing stuff in Enjin_Minecraft_Plugin and Enjin-Minecraft-Plugin and Enjin%20Minecraft%20Plugin
[20:29]<Tux2> Here's the screenshot of the control panel for the tool I'm making: http://tinypic.com/r/m92emx/8
[20:30]<@BC_Programming> Ahh yes the PHP efforts
[20:30]<@BC_Programming> nicely done
[20:30]<Veltas> Nice
[20:31]<Tux2> Thanks :) It's been blood, sweat and tears to get it to work.
[20:31]<@BC_Programming> as with anything in PHP really
[20:32]<Tux2> lol, right?
[20:32]<@BC_Programming> I dont even want to touch my websites main page and download/update stuff, though Im surprised it still works
[20:32]<Tux2> lol
[20:33]<Tux2> For a while the Player Search page kept breaking due to some unknown errors... they finally just went away however
[20:33]<@BC_Programming> speaking of random errors I broke our updater for everybody with an update I issued last night
[20:34]<@BC_Programming> out of nowhere it no longer started and claimed it couldnt retrieve update information because update lister.exe was being used by another process
[20:35]<@BC_Programming> No idea where that came from but apparently it was a function that had been working just fine since I originally wrote the updater. But it had been replaced with a lib function so I was able to fix it
[20:35]<@BC_Programming> Not before everybody and their dog mentioned it though
[20:35]<Tux2> Ha ha! I've had those issues
[20:35]<@BC_Programming> All I did was reverse the sort order of a drop-down menu, wasnt even related lol
[20:36]<@BC_Programming> it must be because when I uploaded it I literally said out loud what could go wrong
[20:36]<Tux2> The stats update for minecraft was one of those updates where I thought everyone using 1.7.9 would have made sure that their plugins were up to date to support UUID. (it was a combined Vault compatibility update and stats update/enabling)
[20:37]<Tux2> I couldn't have been more wrong... most of our updates since have been putting in checks just to make sure people have updated their stuff!
[20:37]<@BC_Programming> but people were downloading it for stats without updating their other plugins
[20:38]<Tux2> "U broke my server" "hmm... I wonder why... send a report" * customer sends report * "Oh, you're using MC 1.7.9 and using a version of mcMMO which was released for 1.5.2 from last year?!?!"
[20:40]<@BC_Programming> hah
[20:41] * Tux2 makes patch to catch error and print out notice to user to update mcMMO. "There, update to this version of the plugin or update mcMMO. Your pick, as this version just makes it so that your older version of mcMMO doesn't break our plugin"
[20:42]<Tux2> I've got users using old economy plugins from back in the day that have never gotten updated to support UUID and had their own vault handler built in complaining of AbstractMethod errors...
[20:43]<@BC_Programming> Heres a question I got via reddit a day or so ago:
[20:43]<@BC_Programming> Hey man, is there any way to force /claimexplosions to be on, by default? I cant seem to force Withers to always destroy claimed blocks when they blow up. I always need to type that command& and I would like it to just happen so players cant trap Wither and slay it in seconds.
[20:44]<@BC_Programming> I dont know if that is possible, been too long since Ive touched it
[20:44]<Tux2> lol
[20:44]<Tux2> I'm not answering any questions or bugs until I get the UUID support in
[20:45]<Tux2> Then the code base is getting a nice overhaul and simplification as well as better defaults
[20:45]<Tux2> Quite a few bugs have cropped up due to everyone demanding "features"
[20:46]<Tux2> I still can't believe it works as well as it does though
[20:46]<@BC_Programming> lol Rube goldberg machine
[20:46]<Tux2> lol
[20:49]<Tux2> I got tired of the huge amount of tickets and comments on GriefPrevention, so I just disabled them until we get everything sorted out.
[20:51]<Tux2> I've noted it at the beginning and end of the page as well
[20:53]<@BC_Programming> yeah after I hadnt been on dev.bukkit for a week or two I was scared to even open the page or tickets, ignorance is bliss I guess
[20:54]<Tux2> lol, right?
[20:54]<Tux2> I keep getting tickets filed for the same stuff, we're up to ticket 780!!!!! So I decided to keep us sane to just disable new ticket creation
[20:56]<Tux2> lol, wait, only ticket 736, but still that's insane
[20:57]<@BC_Programming> I dont like the ones that can be summarized as you ruined everything
[20:57]<Tux2> lol, right?
[20:58]<@BC_Programming> mostly because they are arguably true :P
[20:58]<Tux2> lol, exactly
[20:58]<Tux2> I'm going to take the mess we made and try to get it all sorted out, however it's going to take time and I'd rather not see all those tickets filed again and again and again
[20:59]<@BC_Programming> I made the mess pretty much on my own there
[20:59]<@BC_Programming> The biggest problem I think is that I couldnt dog food it at all since I dont run a server
[20:59]<@BC_Programming> and then what some people wanted, others didnt want...
[21:01]<Tux2> lol, exactly
[21:01]<Tux2> We need to get back down to basics and really clean it up
[22:02]<Tux2> lol, I've got a customer that whenever he messes up a server he cancels then orders a new one... This is like his 6th time he's done it so I've emailed him letting him know he can just delete everything in his ftp folder instead of giving me all that money. :P
[22:05]<@BC_Programming> lol
[22:13]<Tux2> lol: http://gyazo.com/ffa2167158b30615a9def90d9964013f
[22:13]<Tux2> This was sent to me using the contact form on my website
[22:14]<Tux2> My response to him: "Hi Adam, Thanks for the offer, however I don't buy domains off of people for extremely inflated prices."
[22:17]<Tux2> He forgot that my domain is also shorter than that one and easy to remember
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[22:35]<@BC_Programming> tux2: LOL! $500-$800... its really worth like 3 thousand
[22:37]<Tux2> lol, right?!?! More like he's trying to sell the domain of a failed business.